Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". It was certainly alive and well in Israel. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. 20, and still another between Saul and David in 1 Samuel 24. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S He will not relent. You cannot tell. He just weakly said, "Oh okay, whatever you want. Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. What might he have done? Gibeon is only a few miles mostly north of Jerusalem. No silver or gold from that house. Up and down your family tree, sin does not go. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. Because David had been good friends with Jonathan, he at first allowed all of Sauls family to continue to live peaceably in the land. Eisenhower was still in office. Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. It would have been the answer. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? There is less bloodshed, and there will not be much opportunity like in Gentile nations for these blood feuds to last for years and generations. This incident of the famine took place rather late in David's life. We do not know when it happened. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. Should we make a covenant with them? Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. And we are supposed to be ready. Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin My reading between the lines concludes that King David was at a spiritual low point at this time. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. He attempted the genocide of Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. Go coach! That is basically how it was. Report, September 02 2013 "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. The "Great Debate" between Nixon and Kennedy had not occurred yet. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. How many rebellions were there? Another possibility is that when Saul slew many of the priests at Nob he also executed many Gibeonites (1 Samuel 22:19). God is just. Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. Nevertheless, he names a few of them. We do not know how long before II Samuel 21 this incident happened. WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. He was far from God during this time. He did this "in his zeal for. Or as the For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? Does the devil have power to make us sick? If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. We cannot let them linger around. And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. Asked August 31 2013 Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. WebWe will attack Gibeon, because they have made peace with Joshua and the Israelites." What did David do to end the famine caused by Saul breaking a treaty with the Gibeonites? They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. Who was the father of Mephibosheth? I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. Yes, my lord, he answered. And we bear the guilt with them for that. A little further down, we read: II Samuel 21:2 . Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! Should the explanation in Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation? That is the bottom line. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. We have examples of where that has happened, but he did not do that this time. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. It is his sin. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? In 1 Samuel 10, Saul first tries to kill David by straight up pinning him to the wall with his spear, but David dodges twice. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." He was tired, and wanted to get it out of the way. or who shall stand in his holy place? God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." Instead, David brings back twice as many. He needed God to forgive him. Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. But so did David. And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Then, pray for all you are worth so that your relationship with God and Jesus Christ is strong when the famine hits. The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. It did not come the next week, or the next month, or the month after that, all through the summer and into the fall holy days. WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? You had only black and white television if you had television. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. And then King David inquired of the Lord. They were probably in middle age, 45-60. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. God said explicitly to destroy everything! And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. David did not come to this with any regal neutrality in the least. Who are the twenty four elders that John foresaw? A brief, but important, reference to the Gibeonites can also be found in 2 Samuel 21:1-14. It cut us off from God. It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Nob. He committed colossal sins that whole nations would be held in contempt for. WebThe designation Nethinim is derived from the Hebrew verb natan ("to give over"), which can mean devoting someone to cultic service. The time had passed. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. He apparently killed Something is wrong. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. We are starting to get some of the atmosphere around this event now. But Joshua had the final decision. II Samuel 21:7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. Therefore, they arrive in the camp of Israel, and say, "Where's your leader? This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. Is that what happened?" Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. 0 responses Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. He just simply rolled over. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. Once again, God's anointed was compelled to humble himself and his nation before a delegation of these servile Gibeonites. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.". but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. and for his bloody house. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. Such a shame to destroy it all! And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. So this zeal may not have carried good connotations (cf John 2:17) it was not zeal for God but zeal for man, an ongoing problem with Saul. Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. Let me ask God about this. There were no cell phones. God required atonement to be made. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. Wherever he turned, he harassed them. This was obviously later in his life and reign. At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. However, that is not the case. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. In other words, we want them to be just like us. But it appears at least 40, maybe 50 years in the past. ", Or even after two years. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. One of them toward the end of this list is King David. WebThe alliance with the Gibeonites lasted for centuries, until Saul - in his zeal (21, 2) - decided that the ancient covenant was no longer binding. Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. Except for verse 21, there is very little mention of God in the whole episode. Report. Where are they from? At most it was about ten miles awaynot very far at all. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD And the king said, "I will give them." As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. The historical narrative of King David is drawing to a close. So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. He gives them exactly what they want, and look at what happens. 2. Evidently, that is what he did. I think he was distracted by all the cares of his office of being king. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. 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